Interesting take. I grew up in the Stone-Campbell Movement (Churches of Christ) and served as a minister and missionary for several years. In that movement elders, bishops, and pastors are synonyms for one office -- lay elders. Also, evangelist, preacher, and teacher are synonyms for another office -- ministers of the word (closest thing to clergyman) . Finally, deacons and servants are synonyms for a third office.
I mention that only say I am now a Presbyterian pastor (aka, teaching elder) in the PCA. With many clergy-friends in the ACNA and REC I am curious about these matters.
That said: I appreciate you're striving for a generous and charitable view of our Presbyterian orders, but I wonder if you took into account the Presbyterian view of one office (elders/presbyters) two orders (teaching elders and ruling elders, aka, clergy elders and lay elders)?
If so, how does that fit your (seemingly) clergy heavy focus? If not, how might factoring in lay ruling elders affect or alter your conclusion re: presbyterian orders.
Lastly, re: your proposal to ditch the three branch theory -- how does that square with Irenaeus of Antioch's (2nd century) view of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons — which seems foundational to the Great Tradition? A question that honest Presbyterians must contend with.
This was really helpful as someone struggling to view my brothers in Christ in presby or lutheran traditions as valid! Do you have any further reading / resources that hit on this?
Don't shoot the messenger... a core belief for me is Apostolic Succession. Just alerting you to this article.
https://open.substack.com/pub/javierperdomo/p/anglicans-against-strict-apostolic
Interesting take. I grew up in the Stone-Campbell Movement (Churches of Christ) and served as a minister and missionary for several years. In that movement elders, bishops, and pastors are synonyms for one office -- lay elders. Also, evangelist, preacher, and teacher are synonyms for another office -- ministers of the word (closest thing to clergyman) . Finally, deacons and servants are synonyms for a third office.
I mention that only say I am now a Presbyterian pastor (aka, teaching elder) in the PCA. With many clergy-friends in the ACNA and REC I am curious about these matters.
That said: I appreciate you're striving for a generous and charitable view of our Presbyterian orders, but I wonder if you took into account the Presbyterian view of one office (elders/presbyters) two orders (teaching elders and ruling elders, aka, clergy elders and lay elders)?
If so, how does that fit your (seemingly) clergy heavy focus? If not, how might factoring in lay ruling elders affect or alter your conclusion re: presbyterian orders.
Lastly, re: your proposal to ditch the three branch theory -- how does that square with Irenaeus of Antioch's (2nd century) view of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons — which seems foundational to the Great Tradition? A question that honest Presbyterians must contend with.
This was really helpful as someone struggling to view my brothers in Christ in presby or lutheran traditions as valid! Do you have any further reading / resources that hit on this?